I'd have to agree, although I'm unaware of that happening. My husband did serve before his naturalization went through, but he never seemed worried about it.
I served with guys in the 90’s who were not yet citizens but served so that they could earn citizenship! You can absolutely come to US and get green card, then serve in military honorably, get discharged and be deported because you’re not a US citizen! That’s effing crazy!
In my experience, and I have quite a bit of experience with legal immigration issues, it is extremely rare for a person with a green card to fail to complete the process of becoming a citizen of the United States of America. In fact, a tremendously high percentage of individuals who seek legal immigration to the country And make it as far as obtaining a green card to complete the process. One thing that can happen is, if you break the law, our country can decide that they don't want to continue to extend that opportunity, so everyone I know with a green card is extremely careful to be law, abiding almost citizens. However, in all systems, there are cracks that people can fall through, and that will forever be the case, the question is whether a few people are accidentally falling through the cracks or is the system intentionally created in order to take advantage of people. As Americans who watch Dog our country we need to Always pay attention, but also as human beings it's very important that we not make the mistake of assuming that a rare occurrence is the rule or what is typical or intended for a human made system. I have family who serve their community in various capacities within the police force, And statistically, and also from personal experience I have found that the vast majority of American citizens who serve in blue do an incredibly good job of working on that fringe of chaos that exists within all human societies. They have to cope with cities, collapsing, under poor management and exploding Drug abuse and homelessness populations that are actually quite dangerous to deal with, they face life-threatening domestic violence situations on a regular basis, they pull over complete strangers without knowing if that person is going to pull out a gun and attempt to kill them, and they do quite literally risk their life every single day in order to keep you and I and other law, abiding citizens safe and also in order to keep criminals as safe as possible while they're in the act of committing a crime and acting in a random and volatile manner. My point being, that a few bad people in the police force has resulted in a mistake within society, where there is an assumption that those few people represent the majority or the norm or the culture overall. Similarly, I would imagine that young men and women who have a green card and choose to serve in the military are most likely going to succeed at naturalization and citizenship, And the few that Dont might have something going on in their story that they're not proud of or they don't wanna mention and so we need to be very careful that we do not assume that a few bad stories represent again the majority or the intent of the system. In other words, people can get hurt and fall through the cracks and have a bad experience and the system can still be primarily and inherently functioning in a way that we can agree with and support. Humans on earth… That's what we're dealing with. A guaranteed imperfect system, and it's important to keep that in mind.IMO
Oh, i completely agree with you. A few bad apples spoil the bunch and I definitely try to judge people their individual actions. I was just saying, it is pretty crazy that you are allowed to serve in our military and possibly be injured/killed doing so, and not get an automatic citizenship. I mean, it’s a lot to give up your life for 4 years. Pay isn’t horrible and you have a roof over your head, so I guess I could see why people do it. Guys I served with were fine blokes and definitely some of the best of us. They got messed with a little when people found out they weren’t even citizens, but in the end we were all there to do our part. It’s been 23 years since I got out and I still chat with some of them!
I agree, the first time I learned that a person could serve in the military, and not be given automatic citizenship. I was quite surprised as well. However, as you say, people are people all over the world, regardless of what their national citizenship status might be.Why wouldn't we be friends with them?!
There is no reason why we wouldn’t be! You’re preaching to the choir, ma’am. My wife is Mexican, born in the US to parents born here but her grandma and grandpa came to US when they were teenagers. If we had more US citizens that respected this country and our American Dream as we did undocumented and people on their way to citizenship, we’d live in a much more peaceful and beautiful place, but some people want to come here and then pull the ladder up for anyone else. The scarcity lie we’ve been fed just plain isn’t true.
I’m more critical of those who hoard wealth at the top while people can’t make a living wage to support themselves, and I’m not just talking about undocumented! I have nieces and nephews that could never afford what I could when I was exiting the Marines. I owned my first house at 24 thanks to VA loan and had a new car and a job that paid $11.50 an hour which was enough because my mortgage on my townhouse was $580 a month!
My mother-in-law was born in a tiny little town in the Sierra Madre range in western Chihuahua State. She was the third youngest of 15 kids. Quite poor. She met my father in law in Juarez. He was working in his MS in math at UTEP in El Paso. They married when she was 16 and he was 22. He became an engineer with Honeywell and they settled in Phoenix.
She had gone to school through “secundaria” (junior high) in Mexico, barely spoke English, raised five kids, learned decent English over time, got a GED, went to community college and got her AAS. She wrote and had published two amazing books of fictional short stories based in rural Mexico.
She loved this country with her heart and soul, eternally grateful for the opportunities all around her. I miss her every day. She was a saint.
What a lovely story! My mother-in-law was born in Chihuahua also, and met my father-in-law there. They married at similar ages, had 13 kids, two died as toddlers and my husband and his older brother are named after them. My husband was number 9 of the 13 kids.
My in-laws never learned much English, but my father-in-law worked out in the community of Gilroy, CA for 50+ years and the massive Catholic Church was standing room only when he passed.
All of the kids went on to live the American dream, college or other careers, except the eldest, and they're all returning with plenty of comfort and a pile of grandkids in all directions...
I was the only daughter or son "in-law" that spoke Spanish and could communicate directly with Mom and Dad. Was a blessing to know them.
Yes! My husband's family immigrated through the California border in 1956, when he was eleven months old (9th of 13 kids, and last one born in Mexico). They worked their way up the agricultural world, landing eventually in Gilroy California, where the kids began school and life went on. I'm not sure how each of the older kids were naturalized, or when Mom and Dad became citizens, but they did long ago. Probably during the Reagan years? My husband graduated high school, entered into the Air Force, served honorably and earned extremely high marks for his diligence and effort, then after he left/retired from the Air Force, within a few years, he had his Naturalization Ceremony. He's been an American citizen ever since then. This was a long time ago, so things were a bit different from now. That's all I know.
What’s the point? You married him for better or worse. Be with him and adopt his values and culture in his homeland. I’ve not heard any telling of Americans illegally entering Mexico, or any southern country for a better life. Mexicans, et al must build their institutions etc…, so their. Children won’t have to be humiliated in other more developed countries.
My point? Hmmm. What was I unclear about? It seems that somehow you are hearing a "sob story?" I was trying to encourage multi-generational home ownership goals...and my family may yet achieve that goal, despite our somewhat rough childhood beginnings, because America rewards hard work and responsible choices. Of course, that means ethical and law-abiding choices, as well. Please feel free to clarify if you're simply expressing an opinion or if you have a clarifying question for me...!
There’s no point making a “law and order” argument while Trump and his cabal run amok doing whatever they please without consequences. You want the law applied? Then apply it equally… to everyone.
Cracking down on the poor and desperate while writing billionaires like Trump a pass for everything they do (not to mention pardoning insurrectionists) makes the “law and order” schtick a bad joke.
I advocated for our constitutionally guaranteed rights (and our greater human rights) all throughout the Biden/Covid years and I'll do the same now.
Government is, by definition, the debate over parameters for human behavior, especially the use of power.
It is a forever conversation, as it should be!
I think this is why tragic eras of totalitarianism are ushered in by naive populations (motivated by actual desperation or manufactured desperation) leaning into an inappropriate desire for a government that is so good there need be no further debates!
Because all is good and as it should be...
But, that is both an impossibility and a dangerous lie.
I have a big problem with U.S. military recruiting non-citizens who could honorably serve, be discharged and still be Deported!
I'd have to agree, although I'm unaware of that happening. My husband did serve before his naturalization went through, but he never seemed worried about it.
I served with guys in the 90’s who were not yet citizens but served so that they could earn citizenship! You can absolutely come to US and get green card, then serve in military honorably, get discharged and be deported because you’re not a US citizen! That’s effing crazy!
In my experience, and I have quite a bit of experience with legal immigration issues, it is extremely rare for a person with a green card to fail to complete the process of becoming a citizen of the United States of America. In fact, a tremendously high percentage of individuals who seek legal immigration to the country And make it as far as obtaining a green card to complete the process. One thing that can happen is, if you break the law, our country can decide that they don't want to continue to extend that opportunity, so everyone I know with a green card is extremely careful to be law, abiding almost citizens. However, in all systems, there are cracks that people can fall through, and that will forever be the case, the question is whether a few people are accidentally falling through the cracks or is the system intentionally created in order to take advantage of people. As Americans who watch Dog our country we need to Always pay attention, but also as human beings it's very important that we not make the mistake of assuming that a rare occurrence is the rule or what is typical or intended for a human made system. I have family who serve their community in various capacities within the police force, And statistically, and also from personal experience I have found that the vast majority of American citizens who serve in blue do an incredibly good job of working on that fringe of chaos that exists within all human societies. They have to cope with cities, collapsing, under poor management and exploding Drug abuse and homelessness populations that are actually quite dangerous to deal with, they face life-threatening domestic violence situations on a regular basis, they pull over complete strangers without knowing if that person is going to pull out a gun and attempt to kill them, and they do quite literally risk their life every single day in order to keep you and I and other law, abiding citizens safe and also in order to keep criminals as safe as possible while they're in the act of committing a crime and acting in a random and volatile manner. My point being, that a few bad people in the police force has resulted in a mistake within society, where there is an assumption that those few people represent the majority or the norm or the culture overall. Similarly, I would imagine that young men and women who have a green card and choose to serve in the military are most likely going to succeed at naturalization and citizenship, And the few that Dont might have something going on in their story that they're not proud of or they don't wanna mention and so we need to be very careful that we do not assume that a few bad stories represent again the majority or the intent of the system. In other words, people can get hurt and fall through the cracks and have a bad experience and the system can still be primarily and inherently functioning in a way that we can agree with and support. Humans on earth… That's what we're dealing with. A guaranteed imperfect system, and it's important to keep that in mind.IMO
Oh, i completely agree with you. A few bad apples spoil the bunch and I definitely try to judge people their individual actions. I was just saying, it is pretty crazy that you are allowed to serve in our military and possibly be injured/killed doing so, and not get an automatic citizenship. I mean, it’s a lot to give up your life for 4 years. Pay isn’t horrible and you have a roof over your head, so I guess I could see why people do it. Guys I served with were fine blokes and definitely some of the best of us. They got messed with a little when people found out they weren’t even citizens, but in the end we were all there to do our part. It’s been 23 years since I got out and I still chat with some of them!
I agree, the first time I learned that a person could serve in the military, and not be given automatic citizenship. I was quite surprised as well. However, as you say, people are people all over the world, regardless of what their national citizenship status might be.Why wouldn't we be friends with them?!
There is no reason why we wouldn’t be! You’re preaching to the choir, ma’am. My wife is Mexican, born in the US to parents born here but her grandma and grandpa came to US when they were teenagers. If we had more US citizens that respected this country and our American Dream as we did undocumented and people on their way to citizenship, we’d live in a much more peaceful and beautiful place, but some people want to come here and then pull the ladder up for anyone else. The scarcity lie we’ve been fed just plain isn’t true.
I’m more critical of those who hoard wealth at the top while people can’t make a living wage to support themselves, and I’m not just talking about undocumented! I have nieces and nephews that could never afford what I could when I was exiting the Marines. I owned my first house at 24 thanks to VA loan and had a new car and a job that paid $11.50 an hour which was enough because my mortgage on my townhouse was $580 a month!
My mother-in-law was born in a tiny little town in the Sierra Madre range in western Chihuahua State. She was the third youngest of 15 kids. Quite poor. She met my father in law in Juarez. He was working in his MS in math at UTEP in El Paso. They married when she was 16 and he was 22. He became an engineer with Honeywell and they settled in Phoenix.
She had gone to school through “secundaria” (junior high) in Mexico, barely spoke English, raised five kids, learned decent English over time, got a GED, went to community college and got her AAS. She wrote and had published two amazing books of fictional short stories based in rural Mexico.
She loved this country with her heart and soul, eternally grateful for the opportunities all around her. I miss her every day. She was a saint.
What a lovely story! My mother-in-law was born in Chihuahua also, and met my father-in-law there. They married at similar ages, had 13 kids, two died as toddlers and my husband and his older brother are named after them. My husband was number 9 of the 13 kids.
My in-laws never learned much English, but my father-in-law worked out in the community of Gilroy, CA for 50+ years and the massive Catholic Church was standing room only when he passed.
All of the kids went on to live the American dream, college or other careers, except the eldest, and they're all returning with plenty of comfort and a pile of grandkids in all directions...
I was the only daughter or son "in-law" that spoke Spanish and could communicate directly with Mom and Dad. Was a blessing to know them.
Love the story about your husband. That IS the American dream!
Yes! Yes it is...
Born in Mexico, how did he become American
Yes! My husband's family immigrated through the California border in 1956, when he was eleven months old (9th of 13 kids, and last one born in Mexico). They worked their way up the agricultural world, landing eventually in Gilroy California, where the kids began school and life went on. I'm not sure how each of the older kids were naturalized, or when Mom and Dad became citizens, but they did long ago. Probably during the Reagan years? My husband graduated high school, entered into the Air Force, served honorably and earned extremely high marks for his diligence and effort, then after he left/retired from the Air Force, within a few years, he had his Naturalization Ceremony. He's been an American citizen ever since then. This was a long time ago, so things were a bit different from now. That's all I know.
What’s the point? You married him for better or worse. Be with him and adopt his values and culture in his homeland. I’ve not heard any telling of Americans illegally entering Mexico, or any southern country for a better life. Mexicans, et al must build their institutions etc…, so their. Children won’t have to be humiliated in other more developed countries.
Hi Cathy!
My point? Hmmm. What was I unclear about? It seems that somehow you are hearing a "sob story?" I was trying to encourage multi-generational home ownership goals...and my family may yet achieve that goal, despite our somewhat rough childhood beginnings, because America rewards hard work and responsible choices. Of course, that means ethical and law-abiding choices, as well. Please feel free to clarify if you're simply expressing an opinion or if you have a clarifying question for me...!
There’s no point making a “law and order” argument while Trump and his cabal run amok doing whatever they please without consequences. You want the law applied? Then apply it equally… to everyone.
Cracking down on the poor and desperate while writing billionaires like Trump a pass for everything they do (not to mention pardoning insurrectionists) makes the “law and order” schtick a bad joke.
The forever challenges of humanity...
I will say, I disagree with your premise.
I advocated for our constitutionally guaranteed rights (and our greater human rights) all throughout the Biden/Covid years and I'll do the same now.
Government is, by definition, the debate over parameters for human behavior, especially the use of power.
It is a forever conversation, as it should be!
I think this is why tragic eras of totalitarianism are ushered in by naive populations (motivated by actual desperation or manufactured desperation) leaning into an inappropriate desire for a government that is so good there need be no further debates!
Because all is good and as it should be...
But, that is both an impossibility and a dangerous lie.
Your thoughts?